take not thy Holy Spirit?
create in me a clean heart, oh God
and renew a right spirit within me
and cast me not away from Thy presence oh Lord
and take not thy Holy Spirit from me
restore onto me, the joy of Thy salvation
and renew a right spirit within me.
---
*disclaimer: these are my own personal thoughts. not to be taken out of context! if you disagree, that's fine. :) I still love you.
this song is a popular song sung by many churches and learned by many people growing up in the church.
I myself, have sung this song many times and have felt the weight of its words, especially in its appeal to God to create in us a heart that is cleansed by His hands and that our joy would be found in our salvation in Christ.
but not till recently, I have been wrestling with the phrase, "and take not Thy Holy Spirit from me."
the bible directs us to a profound idea that for those in Christ Jesus, the Holy Spirit is given unto us as a deposit guaranteeing our salvation (ephesians 1:14). The Holy Spirit is the "helper", as described by Jesus, who will forever be with us, teaching us all things (john 14:26). Jesus, Himself, promises that He will "forever be with us till the end of the age (matthew 28:20) and that He will "never leave us nor forsake us." (hebrews 13:5).
So is this song unbiblical? Should this song be taken out of our song repertoire? Does singing this song imply that the Holy Spirit can be taken from us?
I've heard criticism against this song and some people point us to the fact that this song, being written in Davidic times (psalm 51:10-12) is not a song that should be sung for us living in new testament times. simply put, some people will refuse to sing this song simply because it implies the wrong ideas about God.
To be clear, I believe that the Holy spirit cannot be taken from you, if you are truly in Christ Jesus. Meaning, if you are a believer by faith, in the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ and you have placed your faith in His great work, then the Holy Spirit indwells you and He will never leave you.
Your salvation cannot be lost because your salvation is contingent not upon what YOU do - your salvation will always rest upon the finished work that Christ has done for you.
But i also do think that blacklisting this song and critiquing those who choose to sing it is a bit harsh and little over sighted.
For one thing, I think how this psalm applies to us is that we do not take the grace and mercy of God lightly, and that we feel the weight of the words. Although we should believe firmly that the Holy Spirit cannot be taken from us, I do think it is sometimes good to have the sobering plea to God asking that He would be near to us, always.
The ESV study bible i think puts it into perspective for us nicely:
The whole tenor of this psalm is that, if strict justice were God’s only consideration, he would have the right to bring dire judgment on those who sin (which includes all of his own people), and that the only possible appeal is to his mercy. The function of the psalm, as a song sung by the entire congregation, is to shape their hearts so that they feel this at the deepest level, lest they ever presume upon God’s grace.
and renew a right spirit within me
and cast me not away from Thy presence oh Lord
and take not thy Holy Spirit from me
restore onto me, the joy of Thy salvation
and renew a right spirit within me.
---
*disclaimer: these are my own personal thoughts. not to be taken out of context! if you disagree, that's fine. :) I still love you.
this song is a popular song sung by many churches and learned by many people growing up in the church.
I myself, have sung this song many times and have felt the weight of its words, especially in its appeal to God to create in us a heart that is cleansed by His hands and that our joy would be found in our salvation in Christ.
but not till recently, I have been wrestling with the phrase, "and take not Thy Holy Spirit from me."
the bible directs us to a profound idea that for those in Christ Jesus, the Holy Spirit is given unto us as a deposit guaranteeing our salvation (ephesians 1:14). The Holy Spirit is the "helper", as described by Jesus, who will forever be with us, teaching us all things (john 14:26). Jesus, Himself, promises that He will "forever be with us till the end of the age (matthew 28:20) and that He will "never leave us nor forsake us." (hebrews 13:5).
So is this song unbiblical? Should this song be taken out of our song repertoire? Does singing this song imply that the Holy Spirit can be taken from us?
I've heard criticism against this song and some people point us to the fact that this song, being written in Davidic times (psalm 51:10-12) is not a song that should be sung for us living in new testament times. simply put, some people will refuse to sing this song simply because it implies the wrong ideas about God.
To be clear, I believe that the Holy spirit cannot be taken from you, if you are truly in Christ Jesus. Meaning, if you are a believer by faith, in the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ and you have placed your faith in His great work, then the Holy Spirit indwells you and He will never leave you.
Your salvation cannot be lost because your salvation is contingent not upon what YOU do - your salvation will always rest upon the finished work that Christ has done for you.
But i also do think that blacklisting this song and critiquing those who choose to sing it is a bit harsh and little over sighted.
For one thing, I think how this psalm applies to us is that we do not take the grace and mercy of God lightly, and that we feel the weight of the words. Although we should believe firmly that the Holy Spirit cannot be taken from us, I do think it is sometimes good to have the sobering plea to God asking that He would be near to us, always.
The ESV study bible i think puts it into perspective for us nicely:
The whole tenor of this psalm is that, if strict justice were God’s only consideration, he would have the right to bring dire judgment on those who sin (which includes all of his own people), and that the only possible appeal is to his mercy. The function of the psalm, as a song sung by the entire congregation, is to shape their hearts so that they feel this at the deepest level, lest they ever presume upon God’s grace.
To sum it up, I myself, will most likely never lead the congregation in singing this song. I think there are better songs that can sum up the emotions and truth of what this song is trying to evoke, without the danger of giving people the wrong ideas about god.
At the same time, if someone decides to lead this song - great! I have absolutely no problem, and I will not feel guilty about singing those words.
But let us never forget that our hope and trust must always be placed firmly upon Jesus Christ alone. He is the joy of our salvation. He is our redemption. If He is your Lord AND Savior, He will never leave you to dry.
Praise be His Name!
I don't know if He'll never leave you dry, but He definitely will love you. We go through dry periods ourselves if we think about it! And that kind of makes me wonder; God did take away The Holy Spirit from Jesus.
ReplyDeleteWe also declare it in our faith as we say the Apostle's Creed:
"....was crucified dead and buried. He descended into hell. The third day he rose again..." It says that Jesus, 'descended into hell'. There have been many debates about it but at the same time, it is said that Jesus was apart from the presence of God. That's what Hell is... right? Thus why right before He died, He also said "My God, My God, Why have you forsaken me." This is also His response to the Father's wrath, but at the same time it is that Jesus was knew he was going to be apart from the presence.
So all in all, i think that God can take the spirit away from us. Scripture tells us to that we are dwelling in the spirit and always living in it, but we just have to realize that we need to be not only living, but also filled with the Holy Spirit.
By the looks of it, i'm glad you are doing well Sokin. btw, what i wrote was just my opinion. LaLaLa. Hiiiiii~
hey dan~
ReplyDelete1. this is why i appreciate feedback because it helps me understand more fully what im trying to say. so thanks! (really.)
you are right! God does "leave us to dry" at times in the sense that we WILL face hardship and struggles in this lifetime. as it says, all believers will face persecution on account of our belief in Jesus. The life of a disciple is not one without pain and suffering, but rather one with joyous hope and perseverance through it.
but i think the original intention as i was writing those words was for me to point more to the my original thought that, God will never leave us alone. (that is to say, His presence will not be with us today and then suddenly be gone tomorrow)
2. i think you bring up a good point about the difference between having the Holy Spirit and being "filled" or as we like to say, "directed and empowered by the Holy spirit."
The point that i was trying to get across was that the line, "take not thy holy spirit", seems to suggest that the Holy Spirit can depart from us.. which raises the question of "can we lose our salvation"?
There's a lot of opinions on that matter but i personally believe with conviction, that believers cannot lose their salvation.
If however, they live a life that seems to suggest otherwise, then i would argue that perhaps, that person never truly had a saving knowledge of Jesus Christ and the Holy Spirit had not regenerated his heart in the first place.
So basically, if you are true believer, you cannot have the Holy Spirit taken from you. again, your salvation is secure in Christ.
"Salvation is a gift that isn't merited, and you can't lose what you didn't deserve in the first place." (got that from a driscoll sermon)
3. regarding apostles creed, like you mentioned, there are many ways to look at it and many interpretation. i align myself with the crowd that like to omit that section of the creed as it suggests that Jesus literally went to hell.
nonetheless, i think that phrase "descended into hell" might in fact suggest the viewpoint you gave that because Jesus bore our sins, that God turned away from the son for that brief moment in time to satisfy His wrath against sin.
i think a reassurance we must have as believers though is that because of Christ, we cannot simply lose our salvation because God feels like it and there's nothing we can do to continue to "earn" it because Jesus already paid the greatest price for us.
i think having this mindset is necessary for all believers because if we have to constantly look at our living and see if we are "measuring up", then it is a lesson in futility. to think that God will "take away the spirit" because of our sins would negate the finished work on the cross.
we will always fall short. but rather, if we can find rest in the saving grace and work of Jesus Christ, then the works will flow out of that rest.
There is no need to ask of God to "not take away His presence" from us because I believe from scripture that, He never will.
all in all, all of this, if it points us to appreciate Christ more and love Him, then i think thats what it really boils down to in the end.
whoa i ended up writing more than i intended. haha. i hope you read this with a tone that is more conversational than confrontational. i appreciate your points and thanks for helping me clarify some of my thoughts better.
again, thanks for your input dan!
Got your back Sokin! haha, yo this is really cool, i didnt know a blog site other than xanga (from ancient times) existed. time to go wild =]
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