2. would john piper ever use the Four Spiritual Laws?
if you notice my left hand blog column, you can probably see that ive been reading up a lot on Calvinist theology and have been pretty interested in following the movement as a whole.
i think people like Driscoll, Piper, CJ Mahaney, Matt Chandler and a whole lot of others have been really REALLY God-inspired and blessed and ive been eating up their stuff for as long as ive been in cali. i would recommend them to anyone, anytime.
but today, as i checked the Desiring God blog, i came across Piper's new post: (link)
as most people may automatically recognize, the phrase "God loves you and has a wonderful plan for your life" is taken directly from Bill Bright, and CCC's Four Spiritual Laws tract.
ive come across alot of "cults" on campus here at UCI. specifically, the group, "christian students" have been really strong on this campus and i saw them regularly spreading their tracts on campus. i didnt know they were sorta, "cultish" in their doctrine and ways until a team member pointed it out to me, and upon some investigation, i realized that they were in fact, led by the International Church of Christ(Icoc) structure and had ties to the Boston Church of Christ. you can look up the info on your own if you want, as to why many people consider them to be "cultish".
anyways, i never ever thought, that i would see the Four Spiritual Laws tract being questioned, let alone by someone as influential as John Piper.
i still am in the process of digesting this and trying to work out ways where i can reconcile the Four Spiritual Laws and my own, personal convictions and theological thoughts since coming to GCTC training. so i can't say if i disagree with this or not.
but a couple of things i can be certain of is that:
1. God has used the 4SL time and time again to bring people to at least fix their eyes and look at Christ for what He has done for us on the Cross.
2. God has used the 4SL to being people to a point of decision and have made sincere, heartfelt decisions to acknowledge their sinfulness, their inability to help themselves, and have made a decision to have faith that through Christ and Christ alone can we know God and be looked at with Christ's righteousness.
3. the 4SL does have some questionable bible verses that seemingly have nothing to do with salvation - the most obvious being revelation 3:20.
4. the bulk of CCC's method of training people to become followers of Christ come after the 4SL - through discipleship and training, etc.
5. God will still continue to bring people to know Him through Jesus via the 4SL for years and years to come.
6. i wouldnt call the 4SL or the CCC movement for that matter, anywhere close to known prosperity gospel teaching ministries (ie. joel osteen)
7. sometimes i did feel that the 4SL did need some updating here and there. yes, it does present a simplified gospel, but is that enough?
yeah, so like i said, im still digesting all this and am trying to find out what i think about this topic.
but what do you guys think?
sokin.
i think people like Driscoll, Piper, CJ Mahaney, Matt Chandler and a whole lot of others have been really REALLY God-inspired and blessed and ive been eating up their stuff for as long as ive been in cali. i would recommend them to anyone, anytime.
but today, as i checked the Desiring God blog, i came across Piper's new post: (link)
If anyone would come after me, let him deny himself and take up his cross and follow me. For whoever would save his life will lose it, but whoever loses his life for my sake and the gospel’s will save it. For what does it profit a man to gain the whole world and forfeit his soul?
as most people may automatically recognize, the phrase "God loves you and has a wonderful plan for your life" is taken directly from Bill Bright, and CCC's Four Spiritual Laws tract.
ive come across alot of "cults" on campus here at UCI. specifically, the group, "christian students" have been really strong on this campus and i saw them regularly spreading their tracts on campus. i didnt know they were sorta, "cultish" in their doctrine and ways until a team member pointed it out to me, and upon some investigation, i realized that they were in fact, led by the International Church of Christ(Icoc) structure and had ties to the Boston Church of Christ. you can look up the info on your own if you want, as to why many people consider them to be "cultish".
anyways, i never ever thought, that i would see the Four Spiritual Laws tract being questioned, let alone by someone as influential as John Piper.
i still am in the process of digesting this and trying to work out ways where i can reconcile the Four Spiritual Laws and my own, personal convictions and theological thoughts since coming to GCTC training. so i can't say if i disagree with this or not.
but a couple of things i can be certain of is that:
1. God has used the 4SL time and time again to bring people to at least fix their eyes and look at Christ for what He has done for us on the Cross.
2. God has used the 4SL to being people to a point of decision and have made sincere, heartfelt decisions to acknowledge their sinfulness, their inability to help themselves, and have made a decision to have faith that through Christ and Christ alone can we know God and be looked at with Christ's righteousness.
3. the 4SL does have some questionable bible verses that seemingly have nothing to do with salvation - the most obvious being revelation 3:20.
4. the bulk of CCC's method of training people to become followers of Christ come after the 4SL - through discipleship and training, etc.
5. God will still continue to bring people to know Him through Jesus via the 4SL for years and years to come.
6. i wouldnt call the 4SL or the CCC movement for that matter, anywhere close to known prosperity gospel teaching ministries (ie. joel osteen)
7. sometimes i did feel that the 4SL did need some updating here and there. yes, it does present a simplified gospel, but is that enough?
yeah, so like i said, im still digesting all this and am trying to find out what i think about this topic.
but what do you guys think?
sokin.
I think a lot of times, we focus on small matters and miss the bigger picture, like, is using 4SL correct?, etc. The bigger picture is what's behind the 4SL, and that is undoubtedly the gospel. And another point is, if it is obvious that the 4SL works, then what's the problem? If the 4SL does go against some christian doctrine, I can understand why people may be against the 4SL , but if many people have turned to Christ through it, does it really matter? I think God works in many ways, and we're just limiting God if we think He only works in one way.
ReplyDeletehmm good point. i guess my questions come from the fact that, as a ministry, kccc lives and breathes the 4SL almost everyday. every witnessing meeting, every mission experience.
ReplyDeletemy worry is just purely personal because i would feel uneasy the rest of my life as a staff worker for CCC, if i used the materials, yet i didnt fully believe in it. it just creates conflict of interest in my heart. meh.
but good point though, really. ps, start a blog too! xanga is dead! haha
Dude...Im a total antifan of Joel Osteen. That fool needs to stop breathing his money. That guy also needs to stop bragging about how big his lakewood ministry is.
ReplyDeleteICOC is very much like us...but cultish in that they expect u to change personality to the one jesus had (esfj) and marry members within ICOC.
4 spiritual laws could use a update. Im sure there is a way to make it better and use verses straight up in context.
i've realized that 4sl is taken COMPLETELY OUT OF CONTEXT....but the way it works is that every word of God is living and active. The Holy Spirit can take our weak words and turn them in the right way, so cheers to God for His omniscience, which includes contingencies!
ReplyDeleteI've found that here in America, people are less open to actually listen to the 4sl which tends to make it less effective than in countries abroad. I think for evangelism here, there are may be better ways to reach people.
ReplyDeleteHI SOKIN :) :) :)
ReplyDeleteit's jamie :D
i was trying to add you to our mission team's directory and so i went to your facebook cuz i forgot your last name hahaha
and i landed here~ :) hello!
you know, i actually talked to dongwhan msn about #3 last week! haha
so you can ask me/him about it~
anyway, i just wanted to say hi! and hwaiting!
you're almost done with training! yay! :)
You have a lot of stuff going on in this entry. Interesting.
ReplyDeleteI remember reading a couple of John Piper's books a year or two ago. He says a lot of great stuff. But I remember saying a lot of, "Wait. What?" to myself. Some of the stuff he (and others) says is too much for me. I have to break it down. I never finished any of his books. Remember Pierced by the Word? I never finished that either.
Anyways, when are you coming back? It's May soon. I thought we be a little bit more serious about meeting and catching up.
But that's up to you.